25. Could Mouth Breathing Be Contributing to Picky Eating and Sleep Issues?
Join Brittyn as she talks with Dr. Marielly Mitchell, a pediatric occupational therapist and oral facial myofunctional therapist. Dr. Mitchell works with children on their sensory processing to optimize breathing and sleeping, which also translates into picky eating.
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IN THIS EPISODE
What is an oral facial myofunctional therapist and what do they help with?
How the anatomy and function of the mouth can impact sleep, sensory regulation, and nutrition.
What is mouth breathing and how can it affect children on the spectrum.
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TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to the Nourishing Autism Podcast where you take a deep dive into the research on autism and dietary changes, nutrition supplements, and lifestyle modifications. Every week, we break down nutrition topics and an easy-to-understand way for you to feel less overwhelmed and feel confident on your nutrition journey with autism.
Brittyn: Hi everybody. This is Brittyn Coleman, the Autism Dietitian. Thanks so much for being here for this episode of Nourishing Autism. I had a really incredible guest this week and her name is Dr. Marielly Mitchell. She is a pediatric occupational therapist and is an oral facial myofunctional therapist as well. She works with children on their sensory processing to optimize breathing and sleeping, which also translates into picky eating.
She is a wealth of knowledge, and I basically had my jaw on the ground, the entire interview. Some of the topics that we discuss here are somewhat complex and [00:01:00] can take awhile to sink in. So if you'd like and are feeling a little overwhelmed, you're welcome to slow down the podcast from your control tab to fully take in everything that she has to say. I will be listening to this podcast multiple times because I know I can learn so much from her and just this interview alone. So without further ado here is my interview with Dr. Marielly as we discussed how our two fields overlap and how we can both work to benefit children with selective eating from different lenses.
Okay, Marielly, thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast.
Marielly: Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm super excited too. It's so nice to see you too.
Brittyn: So yes, you too. I know. It's so fun to always catch up. I feel like, I mean, we've been connected for maybe the past two years or so
Marielly: Maybe longer because it was like pre pandemic maybe in like three years I would say.
And then we got connected and then like, yeah, cause I went up north and you were there, so I'm a little bit longer, but we've definitely been like orbiting around [00:02:00] each other for a while, which has been kind of fun too.
Brittyn: So this gives us a great excuse to catch up to.
Marielly: Totally indeed. I know what you do.
Brittyn: And I know the amazing work that you do with my clients and you know, the clients that you share about as well, but I would love for you to share what you do for parents and how you help children on the Autism spectrum.
Marielly: Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good question too. So I am a doctor of occupational therapy.
I have a background in sensory processing and advanced training in swallowing and orofacial myofunctional therapy, which is a mouse mouthful. So obviously, and we'll just call it OMT. And basically, so what I do is I work with children on the Autism spectrum disorder spectrum with basically their sensory processing and optimizing their breathing and their sleeping. And what I mean by that is I really prioritize a child's breathing through like focusing on nasal breathing and not mouth breathing. And in order for them to be more in a state of rest and digest so that they can descend into sleep cycles that will nourish their nervous [00:03:00] system rather than having poor sleep, which exacerbates their sensory processing.
And then how that translates into feeding and swallowing is that a lot of children with on the spectrum or other diagnoses can often have like a difficulty with oral motor skills related to the anatomy of their face and their tongue related to their oral history, whether it was bottle use or thump, finger sucking or pacifier use or whatever tool it was that they were using at that time that can have an impact on their anatomy of their cranial facial development.
And so I work with like dentists and ENT is to make sure that the function is correct, and they work on the anatomy so that they can chew correctly, swallow correctly and foods are not as intimidating. And we take it kind of pass a sensory perspective where it's not just focusing on like a sensory perspective with feeding.
It's also more related to the oral motor skills and can their mouth actually do that. Are there any restrictions to that? Is there a strengthened issue? Is there an endurance issue is, or, or a motor issue? Is there a tethered oral tissue? Like there's so many things it's such a complicated area because it does so many things.
So. I basically work with those [00:04:00] areas to help with functions in daily life, like regulate from anything from regulation to feeding.
Brittyn: Totally. I mean, it makes complete sense to me. So what I love about what you do, and I had mentioned this before we even started a lot of people are coming to nutrition and they're like, oh, my child won't eat.
They just won't eat this food. And I work a lot in the sensory area and I'm like, you know, we're taking these steps to help with them trying new foods based on their sensory preferences and how we can expand. But there's so much more than that. So easily missed out on. And so that's why I think you're such a great resource because if a child can't physically eat a food, if they can't literally move their mouth that way, or if they're breathing incorrectly can have such a huge impact on their eating.
And I feel like that goes undiagnosed so often.
Marielly: Yes, absolutely. I think it goes undiagnosed like a lot of the time. And I think that has a huge impact on kids because it has a ripple effect because they're in kind of a state of fight or flight constantly. And this [00:05:00] compounding poor quality of sleep, which then makes them more dysregulated and then their sensory needs get really exacerbated.
So then they're not even at a place to be really regulated to sit something and engage with the food that's novel to them because it's such an overwhelming experience, right?. And the thing is at baseline, you sensory integration is one of the foundations of your nervous system. And when that's off, you know, that the motor skills are off.
And so if a child does have some type of sensory processing issue, you know, there's going to be some motor issue down the line. It might not be very obvious, but it will come out. And the thing about the mouth is that you can't see it. You have to rely solely on sensory perception in order to know how to use it right. And that's why therapists always put a mirror in front of a child to give them that visual feedback. Because a lot of these kids rely on their visual system to climb a rock wall or to climb the ladder or like go upstairs and stuff. But if you were to like blindfold them, they're really not comfortable in that space.
And that's assumption with their mouth is it's solely sensory perception. That's why they tend to overstuff and like try to get more input and things like that because they can't feel it. And if you can't like, feel it, you can't use it [00:06:00] right. So sensory proceeds motor, and when sensory perceptions off you don't have the proper motor control.
Now, if you add dysfunctional anatomy to that, like a really big overbite from excessive pacifier use or an underbite or a crossbite where the molars are not aligning, the brain really will protect the human all costs to make sure that the human doesn't choose things that they can't swallow or masticate well, and it's not like that there's a behavior there might be something deeper where you have to work with a dentist to get the teeth aligned and the molars can align so that they can shred the protein. That's the hardest like texture to get by, right. And when they can't do those things, the brain is going to protect themselves and it's with a mind that's already in fight or flight, right. Cause they might have a, they probably have a predisposition to mouth breathing. So it's a huge it's a lot of stuff to take into consideration and it's a huge I feel like overlooked kind of part of feeding a lot of the time that people kind of just focus on sensory and kind of like focus there which is absolutely necessary, but you have to like go a little step further and see like, [00:07:00] okay. If they are really like adverse to touching things and like, they don't want to do it, or they want to, don't want to engage with it. You have to dig deeper into why. And really like, in my opinion, when their sensory perceptions of going in the body, I feel like the mouth is just a reflection of that.
The mouth is just kind of a more complicated area, because it has so many more functions of like breathing and swallowing, chewing, speaking, and all that kind of stuff. So when it's in the body of the person and their particular sensory profile, it's going to get exacerbated in the mouth because one, they can't feel it in two there's so many functions like your hands have functions too, but it's like writing, tying shoes, buttoning, zipping and they're important, but your mouth, the ripple effect of your mouth goes into so many biological functional needs as a human being.
Brittyn: Oh my god. Yes. Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm like hanging on to every word you say because, oh, incredible. And I, I think for people who haven't even really heard of what you do, I'm sure this is kind of mind blowing [00:08:00] for them to understand all of these underlying pieces.
And if this is something that goes undiagnosed, for so long. I mean, how does someone even find you, like how, who should see a, an OMT and how do they get
Marielly: Yeah, absolutely. Definitely I would say, you know in general, any child who has like ADD, ADHD or Autism and has an open mouth posture should definitely be working with someone who has myofunctional therapy training because that open mouth posture is going to exacerbate any neurological, like profile that they might have. Right. If you're mouth breathing, you're stuck in fight or flight, you're going to need to swing more. You're going to need to be on a trampoline more. And that's why in my personal opinion I feel like kids are in OT for really long time because these are unaddressed these needs are not being addressed and they're in therapy till they're like nine. And like the moms, like, yeah, he's on a trampoline for 30 minutes a day, but he's not more regulated. And I'm like, let's dig a little bit deeper. And then you're like, he grinds his teeth at night. He's still wetting in the bed.
Or he's like, well, oops, sleeping with his mouth open and drooling. And like, you're like, yeah, the trampoline, you can be on a swing until you're blue in the face, but [00:09:00] it's not going to work because this person's not rested and they're in fight or flight. So you have to like get their biological needs of proper breathing met, get their mouth close and then work on the regulation piece. And everything starts to kind of like relax once that happens. But I would say that is a particular profile that should definitely be seeing someone with a myo functional background. I would say any child who has had like an issue, especially with like nursing or wasn't able to latch or had significant reflux so as an infant, there's definitely, you can see things very early on. That are noticeable when there's dysfunction in the oral facial complex, basically the mouth and the nose and things like that. Anyone who grinds her teeth at night, snores , has disruptive sleep. And of course, kids with Autism generally have poor quality sleep right from their neurological profile.
But I really do see somebody of my kids on the spectrum and things like that, where I, and maybe it's my lens too, but I've see so many kids who have OMDs like I don't have, and also they get referred to me a lot.
Brittyn: Can you say like say what that is for those..
Marielly: It's an oral facial myofunctional disorder ,right? So that means that they [00:10:00] are breathing through their mouth. They're not breathing through their nose. They have a tongue thrust, they are have an improper swallow. They're not chewing symmetrically. They are biting their nails. They're sucking their thumb. They're sucking their fingers. They're sucking their hair. They're sucking their blanky, their lovey. They are using a sippy cup, a sippy cup just for people to generally know also it's just basically another version of the bottle. It's not really an advanced cup to be drinking. And anyone who uses those kinds of things like excessively you can definitely move on to a straw drinking earlier than people think. And I think people just take comfort and the kids do take comfort too.
Cause those bottles and those sippy cups hit like a trigger point to help them relax. This it's called the spot on your palette which helps you to secrete like dopamine and serotonin. So it's kind of like it's, it's, it's tricky because a lot of kids will need these things because that's what their tongue should be doing, but they find something else to do it because they can't do it themselves.
So it, in terms of just kind of to answer your question and the long, [00:11:00] very long-winded way it's kids who have any type of like neurological thing going on that is being exacerbated by poor quality breathing and poor quality sleep so that you can really optimize their neurological function and then work on the actual issues at hand.
And that translates into sleep, eating as well.
Brittyn: Definitely. So you've talked a lot about. mouth breathing. Why, why is that such a bad thing? I think a lot of parents are going to wonder this. And do you see a lot of kids on the spectrum, like more often than not, mouth breathing
Marielly: Yes. To answer both your questions, yeah, I do. Yes. It's bad and not ideal and yes, I'd see a lot of kids on the spectrum who mouth breathe. And so there's different parts of it so why it's not good for you is because when you're mouth breathing, you're essentially your brainstem is perceiving that as gasping. When your brain perceives it as gasping, you're automatically in fight or flight, it doesn't matter if you're gasping like, or like a faint, like, and the lips are barely ajar that's still mouth breathing. [00:12:00] And that your baseline's already kind of off. So you're not going to be able to regulate yourself very, very easily. And then I do see a lot of kids who are on the spectrum and my practice and things that are mouth breathing cause a lot of them had a tendency to have issues from infancy where they couldn't be nurse or breastfed, or we're also unfortunately society where moms aren't able to like nurse long enough to help with the palette being developed.
Like if you think of like indigenous cultures and like Africa and like Peru and different countries like that they have wide pallets. They've never had braces. They have big smiles or wisdom teeth come in. And it's because they're nurse for long enough because the mother's breast tissue essentially widens the palette, which is the base of the nasal cavity.
We come from a society where we use binkies and pacifiers and bottles, and that narrows the face a lot. When that narrows this oral cavity, the tongue, then doesn't have any room to go anywhere. And so it'll either go forward and it'll become mouth breathing and with the mouth open and the tongue rest in the floor of the mouth, but at night, what happens too is even [00:13:00] if a kid is not particularly mouth breathing, if the airway isn't big enough, or the jaw is underdeveloped, the lower jaw, the mandible, the tongue can drop back and it will block the airway, which happens in adults. And this is kind of what sleep apnea is where people wake up and they're like snoring, but also teeth grinding is a huge sign of this. And a lot of people have this issue, but just because it's common doesn't mean it's normal, right? And so that's another, like, they might not be a total mouth breather, but if your kid's grinding their teeth or if they're moving a lot and their sleep, it's their, body's trying to get their tongue out of their airway.
I forgot what book I was reading, but someone put it as like when someone grinds her teeth they are essentially doing like self CPR on themselves because they're trying to get their tongue out of their airway. And it's true. You're grinding your teeth to get your tongue out of your airway, or you're clenching to stabilize it because your tongue isn't in the right place when you're awake, nonetheless, when you're relaxed and sleeping, but you're not really relaxed at that point so your sleep becomes really like not nourishing, it's not restorative [00:14:00] sleep. So if the tongue can't be where it needs to be just at baseline now let's throw some food into it and a really hard protein and some steak, like you just know. The kids, no chance. Like it's not, it's so hard. And then if you have kids like, you know, to go back to traditional occupational therapy, if they have a child who is unable to cross midline, they have difficulty with, and my OTs will really understand this and this like the therapist and stuff and it might resonate with some of the people. I hope it resonates with everyone listening, but think about it, if someone has difficulty crossing midline, just from a gross motor perspective, now take away the vision and they have to cross midline to lateralize the food over to their molars. Super hard, no way.
It's not that there's no way, but it needs therapy. It needs help with that. And it's not just working on the side of the, it's not just working in the mouth, you've got to get the whole body. You have to get the Corpus Callosum, the brain part to like send the message. And then from a macro, get the body to do it, and then micro get the mouth to do it.
It takes time. It takes a lot of sensory [00:15:00] input and it's doable, but it's not just like it's not just putting a Z Vibe in there and like calling it a day. Does that make sense?
Brittyn: Yeah, I mean, the way that I can only think about how this could also feel when I'm, when I'm sick and I have a really stuffy nose and I can't breathe, and then I'm like scarfing food in my mouth or I'm drinking something and I have to pause and be like, oh, like, especially if I'm a child and I don't have the right, like oral motor skills, it's just like not breathing through your nose.
And like, of course I would be stressed out. Of course I would. And then like on a smaller level. Yeah, my nervous system, just if it's feeling like I'm gasping, I'm going to be in this flight or flight versus being in the rest and digest, which is what we really need for nutrition to kids to break down their food and absorb it really well.
Then it just turns into this whole thing where they're not eating those foods that are nutritious, that can't get the nutrients, they can't absorb it. It's this whole, it all fits together
Marielly: A hundred percent. And then digestion doesn't start and then the vagus nerve and all that kind of [00:16:00] stuff and it can really impact their overall like ability to like, yeah, like you said, like absorb the nutrients that we're trying to just get into them, but it starts like here.
Right? You have to get it in the mouth. They have to start chewing it. They have to break it down. It's a whole thing. And if they don't break it down enough, they create more stomach acid and they get more reflux. Then they start granting their teeth at night because they're, refluxing at night to swallow it.
Like it's, it's a lot and it's really overwhelming for parents, but that's why it's important to have people like you and myself on their team who collaborate and talk to each other and everyone has their department of things. And like, if you're, if you can find someone who can like kill like four birds with one stone, that's great.
But like, that's not always the case, but you want to like really, as a therapist, I want to look at everything I can from every angle, because it's so not just one framework when it comes to feeding and in general, like it's just not like we're humans, like in my opinion we're a system of a bunch of systems and everyone is trying to work out their one system.
But in the oral facial complex, there are so many systems, [00:17:00] and that's why you like an ENT and you have a dentist and then you have a speech therapist and an OT, and then you have a really good nutritionist. And it's just like, I so many cooks in the kitchen and I feel for parents because it's really overwhelming, but it's to really get to the heart of an issue a lot of the time you have to have like, literally like 12 eyeballs looking at this person.
Brittyn: All looking from different lenses. Yeah. Because you and I are looking at a child and we see completely different things and completely different goals. And if you're only ever seeing one person or just two people, I mean, you're missing out on such a huge piece of it, and you're not going to have that full success, but it is overwhelming.
Trying to find, you know, all of these different people to have on your team and people that jive with you and your child and know autism. It's so much to build this team. It can feel so exhausting and take years for parents.
Marielly: A hundred percent. And I think I think, unfortunately, I don't think people are supported enough with that.
And I think a lot of the things that where people turn to like, you know, [00:18:00] pediatricians are amazing and they they're, they're definitely have their place in the healthcare system and stuff like that, but I'm not a pediatrician. Pediatrcian's, aren't like OT is, I'm like, we all have our specialties and like, people need to know where to ask the right question.
Cause then they'll ask a question as someone who doesn't know, and then some will just like blow it off, like it's normal. Right. And they're like, oh, they're going out of snoring. No, they're not, it's not cute. And it's not, that's like pre sleep apnea. Like, it's not cute that they're snoring. They're not, they're three.
That, that, that's why they're tantruming. It's not the only reason why, but it's making the tantrum longer and it's making it worse.
Brittyn: I see that a lot with the eating too. And they're like, oh, they're just a picky eater. They're hitting their milestones. It's fine, but I'm like, you know what? This child is eating three foods and all of those foods are highly processed, don't have any vitamins minerals. So we're developing nutrient deficiencies, which also can contribute just tantrums and poor sleep and poor behavior. And it's just like, yeah, if you're going to a person who isn't knowledgable about OT or nutrition, which like no practitioner is a, an expert in all of [00:19:00] these. And then you get written off.
You might not go try and find a referral to help with these issues on someone who's going to take you seriously and help you. So that.
Marielly: Yeah, I totally agree. And I try to frame it for parents a lot of the time, like, look like, I feel like a lot of like physicians and things we'll look, we'll look at quantitative data, like, okay, like they're rolling by six.
Like they're sitting by six months and their head circumference is this or the 90th percentile for growth and all that. But it's like, not just like, they're not a number. It's like, what's the quality of this person's development in this person's life. Like what is like, okay. Maybe their tonsils aren't huge, but I mean, they're literally losing it every single day. The parents are like pulling their hair out. No one is sleeping in the household. There are eating two things like, is that really appropriate development? You know, in my opinion, it's not because it's like the quality of that person's life and those around them isn't what it should be. It doesn't have to be like that. And if you get the right help, it's, you have to commit to the journey because feeding is a journey as you and I both know, it's not [00:20:00] just we're just gonna get him to eat a celery stick and call it a day. It's not like that. There's so many facets, like oral motor skills, sensory, and there's a psychology behind it and there's behaviors and there's like the family dynamic.
And then there's also just sitting at a table. Like there's a lot to, there's a lot to process there. and unpack. So I try to tell parents break it up into like, look, I'm here for the quality of it. That, and I can, I can give you test results and like objective measures and things like that but you have to, I always tell parents to follow their gut.
If there's something there that doesn't sit well with them, they have to find the person who's going to look for that, like through their lens to see what it is that they want to address. And I think when people really start diving into nutrition, especially nutrition, I think they started to unpack how complex the human is and the human body is cause it's I don't think people, you know, I'm not an accountant, but like taxes can be pretty complicated.
And like, I didn't know that, but like, that's why, like I faced them, want to do them, but, and I think people have to understand that. Those are numbers and paper [00:21:00] and like things and like a human, like we just found out that there was another muscle in the jaw, like two years ago. Like, can you imagine how many TMJ surgeons were like, wow, I didn't know that like, that's mind shattering that to me is like, we're still finding out so much about the body.
And like, people need to really realize it's so complicated. And I feel like we're just, you know, learning myofunctional therapy like seven years ago was really like, has really shaped me into the therapist. But when I learned that stuff back then, everything was kind of like, almost like, oh, wow like this is so like not taboo but so interesting. And people were like, I can't believe this. And like, this is what people were thinking. Now we have the technology to back it. We're finding the sleep studies. We're showing it, like we're having the research and everything everyone's been saying for years, that was kind of like a little bit like, a bit more, not as mainstream. And I think James Nestor's book Breath really brought this to the forefront and it became a New York Times bestseller and everyone started taping their mouth and they started doing all this stuff to Biohackers got really [00:22:00] into it and professional athletes got into it and it's like, okay.
You guys are obviously like functional, like let's, you're good. Let's like optimize the people who really need it and who are struggling to even function. And that's where I started applying this stuff to that. Cause it's it's it's not, it's not, it's not healthy to not be breathing while it's not healthy to not be eating while it's not healthy, not be sleeping well.
Those are basic biological needs that like, I think it's unfair sometimes to like, put a label or diagnose someone with something when like there's literally biological needs, aren't being met. That's so hard. You and I have seen it. Like someone starts eating well and like they start taking all these inflammatory things are their diet.
And like all of a sudden they start, you know, there's no magic pill, but like things start to like, really turn the way you want them to, these are talking more and more regulated. And then when those things kind of go back or they get sick and they regressed, like you see the huge impact it has on the quality of their overall function.
And I just think you know, for the general public lot, it's a really complicated thing to kind of like, it's a big pill to swallow.
Brittyn: Definitely. [00:23:00] I I haven't read that book that you mentioned, but I kind of got on the train of mouth taping because I was interested in it. And I have to say I had some of the most restorative sleep when I actually stuck to it.
And so it's just, I mean, that's my one way of relating to some of this personally, but. It. I do see just how much of a difference all of this makes for kids. And you said it perfectly, I mean, just not simply not having biological needs being met in terms of their nutrition is one piece and then maybe not getting the oxygen to their brain is another piece.
So it's just all of these very, just core pieces that aren't being met. So it makes sense that we need to look deeper and figure out what core like needs biological needs are not being met for this child because of their oral motor strength or their breathing like so, so foundational. So I think that's so important and not enough people are sharing this.
And I think the big question that a lot of people are going to have after listening to this episode are how can [00:24:00] they work with you or find somebody like you, how can people connect with you and learn?
Marielly: Yeah, absolutely. So I have a website it's doctormarielly.com and then under there they go to Theraplay LA, which is like the pediatric side of it.
And then adults, I work with adults who were for like anxiety and like sleep apnea and stuff like that. That's Airway Academy. And there's, I'm also on Instagram. So Dr. Marielly there D-O-C-T-O-R-M-A -R- I- E- L- L- Y. And then I talk about this stuff all the time on there. And yeah, my therapist and I work and we use these frameworks and combine it all and work with kids all the time.
I work with adults a lot. I work with infants too. I know it seems like kind of crazy that I work across the lifespan, but really at the end of the day, it's an electrical, like nervous system that's controlling these muscles that needs to be kind of rewired through sensory input. And then you do repetition builds strength and endurance in conjunction, working with someone who is a dentist or an ENT to make sure the anatomy is correct, because when anatomy doesn't correct, it just doesn't function.
And we're in an epidemic, [00:25:00] a silent epidemic of people who have incorrect cranial facial structure because of like the oral habits you've had in the past century. Which is unfortunate, but that's just kind of how it is. So we have to kind of undo that and like redo the anatomy and it's kind of amazing. Like I you know, just like, I'm not a speech therapist and I never intend to be that.
And, but like when you work on the mouth and you kind of like get the anatomy right and you kinda like make the tongue do what it needs to do and strengthen the, the the movements that it should do, like not thrusting or swallowing and stuff like that. It kind of translates in articulation sometimes it's a beautiful thing that you're like, that's where I was like, wow.
Like if you just kind of like help everything get aligned, it kind of like remediate itself. But and I'll never practice articulation, but that to me was kind of like mind shattering where I was like, wow, like you just had to like wake up the sides of the tongue and they were able to like say different sounds.
And articulation is not a goal of mine and it never will be, but it really is. I think we have to really respect and honor anatomy. And I think we always get really caught, like, so wrapped up in the I don't know, like the, the complexities of [00:26:00] things, but it's really like bringing it back to basics for me.
Like anatomy, nutrition, elimination and sleep then let's discuss the other symptoms, then let's talk sensory, then let's do that. But like, let's get this person sleeping, and let's get them like pooping, let's get them eating. Cause like when they're full of poop, they're literally toxic.
Brittyn: They're not hungry either. And so then they can't sleep.
Marielly: And it hurts to poop and it's a vicious cycle and you have to just kind of get this, like machine these systems back in order, and then they're more available to learn and like actually retain the things that we're teaching them. And that's another reason I think kids are in OT for so long or in other therapies for so long is that they're actually, we're never really available to like for these new neural connections that we're working on because they're not sleeping, they don't retain it.
And I learned that with a few of the kids, like five years ago, I was like, we just, we had your name last week. Like, why is it like you were able to write it, you were able to spell it. You knew what an H was like, why is this not [00:27:00] working? And then, you know, that child, we started doing myofunctional therapy with that child and that we started doing like the other release. They had to get expanded. It was like a commitment, right. But as soon as they started sleeping better and the parents started reporting that. And we started seeing that everything that we work on therapy stuck and they rolling in for six months, not like they've been in for years before we were working on stuff for so long, but if you're not available, like a baseline for this stimulation of therapy, you can't retain it because you're literally processing and integrating things in your sleep.
And like the science of sleep. I, I hope I come back in another lifetime to learn about it because it's so fascinating, but we're just learning stuff like it's kind of nuts and people really, I think I, myself included, I think from coming from the United States, I work a lot. I'm an entrepreneur and things like that and I really try to like sleep as much as I can, but we come from like almost like a like, oh, I didn't sleep that much cause I was working so much. And that kind of, like, glorify it, normalize it and glorify. It's not a good thing. Like that's how [00:28:00] you're torturing yourself and your brain. And like, I'm like, no, you need to sleep.
Like, people are like, yeah, I sleep like four to five hours and I said, great. I'm like, I don't know if like that's good for you. Like some people do there's windows and there's like biohackers that have like really got the science down a bit, but not for kids or like, you know, and not for parents who aren't sleeping with, kids who aren't sleeping, like.
When a parent has to go to a child and tend to a child two to three times a night, that parent is not sleeping. That parent also is going to like, figure out where their car keys are. They're going to like walk into the kitchen and not know why. And like that happens to everybody, but it's kind of like being in like a chronic fourth trimester after the baby's born, because there is no one sleeping.
And then it's like, how do you like nourish your relationship with your partner? How do you have the patience for your child? Like in parents? I think it's so sad because it's like, they get so like down on themselves, they're like, oh, I like lost it on my kid. But like, yeah, like you don't have your frontal cortex turned on.
Like, you don't have impulse control. Like you don't have emotional regulation just like your kid, because you're so [00:29:00] tired. Like I feel for those families so much. And then that's what kind of, I sort of work with adults. Cause it's like, mom's snoring or dad's snoring their not sleeping in the same room and then like their kids waking up all the time.
And like, it's a whole like complex thing that we have to, I think really like respect and like take it into consideration as practitioners and ask those questions that other people aren't asking. Because when you're dealing with sensory needs or behaviors or symptoms that are related to feeding or swallowing or all that.
It all starts in the nose and it all starts in the mouth. And if the nose isn't turned on, the mouth is going to compensate and it's not the mouth's job. And then mouth can't do its normal job talking, eating. It's going, it shouldn't be breathing. Like imagine if you ate through your nose, that's what you're asking your mouth to do when it's breathing.
It doesn't sound normal.
Brittyn: Oh my goodness. Yeah. I think that's a great way for parents to think. Yeah. The mouth is overcompensating. It's trying to do all these jobs and it's clearly going to tire out or just not be able to perform the [00:30:00] jobs that it's not meant to. So, yeah, that's so huge. Marielly I think this, I mean, I hung on to every single word.
Everyone's going to listen to this podcast, like five different times, because I think that I could gain so much information from it. Just hearing it over again. So I'm just grateful that you shared all this information and can definitely recommend, I always recommend you to my clients, but anyone who's listening to go find her on Instagram, on her website.
And you, because you have so much to offer and I just hope practitioners follow your lead in this area, because it's so needed.
Marielly: Thank you. Yeah. I'm trying to like develop a course at some point. Like that's like a goal after like I wrangle like the reopening of my clinic and stuff. Because I think it's we're the gatekeepers as occupational and speech and language pathologists as like therapists who get the kids who are dysregulated the ADD, ADHD, Autism, sensory seekers, and all that.
And it's like, okay, why is this happening? And there are, I haven't met them yet, but there maybe there are out there that don't have these OMD [00:31:00] issues oral facial myofunctional disorders. And I, I obviously get those ones cause that's what I like. I'm referred, people refer to me, so I'm sure they're out there, but like a lot of kids have this stuff going on and it's like, yes, there's sensory stuff I completely agree. Sensory was my first love. Totally my first love, but you have to like, make sure the biology and like basic needs. Are they breathing? Are they sleeping? Are they eliminating? And are they being, are they eating? I think it's like any human, you know? So yeah, I think it's just, I think as a, as a healthcare practitioner and the gatekeeper of seeing these kids and we really need, I think it's like our duty almost to like, kind of like help them cause no one else is going to cause it's not it's not general knowledge yet. And I think that it's starting to cause the James Nestor book, I'm still happy that he wrote that book. But it's something that it's a disservice to kids to just kind of keep them in therapy forever and not look deeply.
Brittyn: Yeah, that's a huge takeaway. Exactly. Well I'm so grateful you're here and [00:32:00] I appreciate, everyone definitely connect with Marielly and thanks everyone for listening to this episode and thank Marielly for being here.
Marielly: Of course. Thank you. Thank you for having me and thanks for listening guys.
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Transcribed by Descript
ABOUT Brittyn Coleman, MS, RDN/LD, CLT
I’m a Registered Dietitian, Autism Nutrition Expert, and the Creator of the Autism Nutrition Library.
I work with parents of children with autism to optimize their child’s diet, supplements, and lifestyle based on their unique needs. I help expand accepted foods for picky eaters, improve digestion and gut health, find the root causes of many symptoms, and ultimately help them feel their best so that they can do their best and be their best.
Not only do I relate to families on a professional level, but also on a personal level. I have been a part of the autism community for over 20 years, as my younger brother was diagnosed on the spectrum at a young age.
I look forward to working with you to uncover the root cause of your child’s symptoms and help your child be the best version of themselves!
