55. How Your Language Can Completely Transform Your Child's Mealtime Experience and Expand Their Diet w/ Stephanie Meyers

Written By Brittyn Coleman, MS, RDN/LD

In this episode of the Nourishing Autism Podcast, Brittyn joins fellow Registered Dietitian and Table Talk Coach, Stephanie Meyers, in a dive deep into the world of mealtime language. 

Get ready to learn practical tips to transform your child's mealtime experience and foster a positive relationship with food in this eye-opening episode.

Stephanie is the author of “End the Mealtime Meltdown: Using The Table Talk Method to Free Your Family From Daily Food Struggles and Picky Eating” and founder of Families Eating Well, a nutrition practice helping parents coach healthy eating skills in kids. 

You can follow Stephanie here: 

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TRANSCRIPT

Hi, I'm Brittyn, a Registered Dietitian and autism sibling. I have a passion for helping parents of neurodivergent kids navigate nutrition and wellness for their child, one small step at a time. Here we'll explore practical nutrition tips, learn from top autism experts, break down the newest research, and share inspirational stories that will empower you to utilize nutrition to help your child feel their best and thrive.

Listen in while picking kids up from school, sitting in a therapy waiting room, taking a quick walk or wherever you find yourself, looking for some inspiration and a friend to guide you along this journey. This is Nourishing Autism.

Brittyn: Have you ever wondered how you can create a more positive mealtime experience and lay the groundwork for success with expanding your child's diet and helping them develop a positive experience with food? If so, this episode is going to blow your mind and is going to provide you with so many practical tips on how to support your child with expanding their diet, but also helping you understand how to lay that important groundwork around [00:01:00] mealtime and help your child actually feel excited to come to the table or at least neutral, not dreading coming to the table.

During this episode, I talked with Stephanie Meyers, who is a registered dietitian and nutritionist, and author of End the Mealtime Meltdown, Using the Table Talk Method to Free Your Family from Daily Food Struggles and Picky Eating.

She's the founder of Families Eating Well, a nutrition practice helping parents coach healthy eating skills in kids and she presents seminars worldwide on cancer survivorship, mindful eating, and family nutrition. I was able to attend Stephanie's talk at our National Dietitian Conference called FNCE, and her presentation stood out to me from all of the other presentations that I went to that entire weekend, and I just knew I had to have her on the podcast.

So with that, let's welcome Stephanie Meyers to the Nourishing Autism Podcast.

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Nourishing Autism podcast. I am so excited today. We have Stephanie [00:02:00] Meyers, who's a fellow dietitian and is known as the Table Talk Coach. I learned about Stephanie when I was at our National Dietitian Conference and sat in on her session and I knew she had to be on the podcast.

So, thanks so much, Stephanie, for being here.

Stephanie: It's honestly, it's my pleasure. I really respect and admire your work and I'm honored to be here.

Brittyn: Oh my gosh, same, same. I learned so much from you. I've never implemented something so quickly from a session before. I went outside of your session,

I got on my computer and I was like, I'm adding and changing things because there were some things that stood out to me so much that I would not have thought of and can benefit my clients. So I think that there's a lot that you're going to share today that's going to probably be that moment for some clients as well.

Stephanie: Thank you. I mean, I feel like as a parent myself, it's really the things that you can do, even like the little nuggets of like one little pearl of something you can try in your own life. I'm very much about test driving too. So I just want to say, as we [00:03:00] get started. For all of your listeners, if you hear something that you think is like never going to work with your kid, you don't have to try it.

And if you think you're curious, like you could maybe just give it a test run or two and see if it works in your own life. It's not about doing it just because I said, so it's really about like, take what we talk about today, see if it applies to you by trying it. And if it does great, take what sticks and leave the rest.

Brittyn: Totally. I love to tell my clients and the members in my membership, just treat everything as an experiment, like you're learning. And when you treat things as an experiment, you get to change your mind. You get to say, you know, that didn't work, or I'm going to change things, or like, hey, that really worked and I'm going to follow it.

Just takes so much of the pressure off. So I love that you said that.

Stephanie: I think that's a really good mantra for parenting overall. Yes, that's right.

Brittyn: Exactly. I'm just going to treat this all as an experiment.

Stephanie: A grand experiment.

Brittyn: Well, so you're a Registered Dietitian, you specialize in picky eating, you're an author, you're an international speaker.

I want to know more about you and I know my listeners [00:04:00] do, and I want you to also take it back to the very beginning when you decided to go into this line of work.

Stephanie: Yeah, it's a long time ago now. I've been a dietitian for 26 years and I actually, my other specialty is oncology. So I'm a dietitian who specializes both in cancer and really how I got into the field of parenting and eating happened when I became a mom.

So, and interestingly enough, a lot changes, you know, when you're a dietitian and you don't have kids and you do things a certain way and then you have kids and you're like, Oh yeah, I'm going to need to make some adjustments there. So how I got into the space of helping parents create a healthy relationship with kids around food was when my daughter was about 2 years old and at the time I was teaching an advanced nutrition course at Boston University and I was noticing how I was standing in my classroom working with the graduate students on how to be an effective nutrition counselor and sort of like what language to use and how to talk to clients who are wanting to make behavior change around food.

And then I was going home and saying completely the opposite things to my own kid. [00:05:00] I was like, okay, but I think you're really going to like it. Maybe if you just take a couple bites, you should try it. You can't say you don't like it if you don't try it. And I made it just the way you like it. And it's just like the last time you had it.

And I would, and I'm seeing you nod your head too Brittyn, like as dietitians, we don't talk to our patients that way. And so I had this kind of aha moment myself. And I was like, Whoa, this is interesting. I'm trained to do this with adults. And so why am I doing it differently with the little people in my life?

Because I'm not sure that that's the most effective way. So that's how I kind of got into, as you said earlier, an experiment, like what if I experimented with language and tried to approach kids with some of the same skills I use in my work as a dietitian with adults.

Brittyn: I love that and it's interesting because we do kind of put them in two separate categories.

Sometimes I have to be like, okay, I'm putting my mom cap on or like, okay I'm putting my dietitian cap on and where [00:06:00] yeah I mean you can learn so much from each side of things and with adults and kids It's important that we think, how can we have crossovers, but also how can we make sure that we address them in the developmental stage they're in.

So it's Yes.

Stephanie: Meeting them where they're at. Yeah, totally.

Brittyn: Well, so, you gave this presentation at FNCE, and for those of you who don't know, like I said, it's our National Dietitian Conference, and you talked about mealtime language or caregiver language around mealtime is what it was called. And I was like, you know, I think this is probably going to be a good session.

I'm going to sit in. And then it was my favorite. And I was like, this is the best session. So I, I just, I need you to explain more about why this is so important around mealtime language for kids. And you talked to toddlers and teens, but you covered that. And, but, tell us more.

Stephanie: Okay. I focus on language because I feel like it's the [00:07:00] only thing we haven't tried as parents.

I mean, most of us who are parents and we've cut sandwiches into cute shapes, we've served the same vegetable 15 times. We don't have all the tools we need by just changing the food. Right. And even when we change the food, like even when we get as creative as we possibly can with recipes and do food chaining and all these things, I find at least in my experience that we tend to still be saying things that are actually working against us.

So an example might just be like, I've shared already some, right? Like, you know, that's enough Mac and cheese. You need to eat some broccoli. If you're sitting there as a parent and you're wanting your kid to eat broccoli and not just take another portion of mac and cheese, saying you need to at least try the broccoli doesn't make them more motivated to try the broccoli.

But if you can change your language to invoke more curiosity and more of a sense of connection, you end up being able to sort of shift those family dynamics at the table. So the reason I focus on language is I think [00:08:00] it's a novel entry point for parents to actually, experience a different way of being at the table with their kid around food.

Yeah, I think it's the one thing we haven't tried, you know,

Brittyn: And I mean, as I've started thinking about it more, it's like, this is the groundwork because you're right. I mean, we can do food chaining and the steps to eating and all of these different approaches to feeding. But if we also aren't setting the table of this positive, non pressure experience, we might not see the progress that we would as if we set the tone before we started implementing all those things.

Stephanie: Yes, I totally agree Brittyn and I also think we would fail to help our kids develop skills, the skills of eating well. I care less about whether or not my kid eats broccoli today and more that she feels into her own experience that her experience is valuable.

And actually maybe it's helpful if we give you even more examples. So two phrases I'd love to just share with your [00:09:00] listeners are, what do you notice? And tell me about... so these are the two, when I'm working with parents and clients and teaching and groups, the first two phrases I encourage people to remember or to practice are "what do you notice" and "tell me about".

So if you go back to that example where the kid might not want to eat broccoli, but you notice that they're eating more pasta, then maybe you want them to, or, you know, you're just making that observation that they're not eating enough veggies or enough of something. You would simply ask, what do you notice about the broccoli?

 Or tell me about broccoli for you. You wouldn't say eat it. You wouldn't, you know, put pressure on them to try it or try one bite. Just what do you notice? Or tell me about... that open ended question gives your child an opportunity to answer you A, if they're able to use words, if they're too young or don't use words, we can talk about that.

 But it changes the sense that the child, most kids have a pretty strong reaction to the foods they're not eating. Even though they're not eating them, they're having strong reactions with their [00:10:00] eyes, their nose, their mouth, their hands, their heart, their lewd memory of the last time they had that food in front of them.

But just getting really clear with yourself that your goal with your kid is to be curious and demonstrate a sense of connection saying, what do you notice about broccoli? isn't because I'm going to make you do anything with it. I just, maybe I've never asked you that before, and you might have a pretty strong opinion about broccoli.

Now, there's loads of questions we could go down here, but just to play out an example, what do you notice about broccoli? And the kid might say, It's yucky. Right, or it's stinky or it's gross. You can follow up by saying, which part, which part, or another open ended question, what would help it? So these are sort of very stock phrases that I teach that again, I want to really invite your listeners to take these home and try them out, but not because we're trying to make the child eat broccoli.

Simply because we're trying to establish that your kid is having an experience of eating [00:11:00] that's worth paying attention to. We're teaching them to pay attention to what's happening inside their body as they eat. That gives them the sense that they are in charge of their own eating life. And that's where they find the desire to be exploratory.

Brittyn: Exactly. Exactly. I, you know, a lot of the time I like talking about Ellyn Satter's approach, you know, the division of responsibility and eating. And for those who don't know what that is, she's a dietitian and basically she says kids have one role. And parents have the other. And as the parent, you provide them a safe place, you provide them, food that they can eat, and they get to choose how much.

Oh, you also provide them where, right? I might be missing out on a few things. No, you got it. Kids get to choose how much or if they even eat it, you know, we don't get to have that control, we can't force a child to eat a food. I guess we can, but it's not going to, it's not what you want to do to have a positive connection to eating and long term success.

And so what I [00:12:00] hear you saying is kind of mimicking that, is that division of responsibility of setting them up for success, helping them make that connection in their body and facilitating that experience because that's such a good learning experience for kids that usually isn't just an innate thing.

We have to make those connections and facilitate it as a parent.

Stephanie: It reminds me that healthy eating when people say, if I don't help them try something, are they ever going to eat healthy foods? And this is really interesting.

How do we define healthy eating? Healthy eating is learning how to take care of what's happening inside of you. Learning how the experience of being hungry, being full, being interested, being disgusted like all those things happen when you're a kid too, you're just not the one buying the groceries and making the meal.

So you have even less control. So we're not letting kids run the show here, but we're teaching them that we are side by side with them as they go through their food experiences. 1 other really quick phrase, I think it might be worth people just knowing about up front is what I call a reflective statement.

And it's 3 magic words. It sounds like, or [00:13:00] it seems like. So when you're having a kid that's pushing their food around on the plate, or they're picking little flecks of tomato out and making a pile on the side, you know, you can comment, you don't have to comment at all or, you could say, it seems like there's trouble with the tomato flecks.

Just let it be not that they're in trouble or that there's a problem, allowing kids to have their experience. It seems like, or it sounds like, or if a kid is demanding a certain food, you know, at bedtime, I want this, I want that. And you don't have that available or it's not on the menu.

Cause as you just said, from the Ellyn Satter approach, the parents are choosing what is available. If a child is pleading for whatever, I want a banana or I want yogurt, you can use, it sounds like, or it seems like. It sounds like you want something soft and or smooth sounds like you want something cold or creamy, the only thing that's cold and creamy doesn't have to be yogurt.

But using reflective statements can get you out of really sticky situations with your kids, or those negotiations those battles where you're struggling to identify what [00:14:00] is available.

Brittyn: Well, you're validating them, and then also you're giving them the words to use for a future interaction as well.

And kind of helping them reflect back, because a lot of eating with autism is very sensory oriented. And so, being able to be like, okay, yes, this is what I'm sensing. For me personally, a crunch really does it for me. I love crunchy foods. I love all food, but for me, if I am feeling a little overstimulated, and I'm hungry.

A crunch is just perfect. And a lot of my clients are the same way. You know, one thing, kind of while we're talking about the language that you said that you used, it sounds like, it seems like, I remember one example that you gave, you were like, it sounds like broccoli really isn't doing it for you tonight.

And you even talked about using these as the parent too, so that you can model it. And I'm like, you know what? This, I can't remember what example you gave, but, this steak is a little chewy. It's really not doing it for me.

Stephanie: Yes, I do that as a parent all the time to show my kids that being kind of dissatisfied with food doesn't mean anything's [00:15:00] wrong.

And I was thinking specifically in terms of spectrum conversation. Saying words like, "It seems like that's feeling really strong for you", or "I'm sensing that crunch is too much for you right now", "It seems like that crunch is so strong for you, like honoring that if you're seeing the reaction in your kid non verbally and they can't find the words to express it, it's okay to just sit with that big feeling.

You know, just sit with that as best you can. It's hard as a parent. It's really hard, but I have found myself like when I get frustrated in moments, trying to remember that this little person beside me is having a really big feeling about food. And if I can just say that it seems like the tofu is causing a really big feeling right now.

And that's okay. And then it's the thing you and I've talked about before. You don't have to eat it, right? Should we talk about that one?

Brittyn: Let's talk about it because this is one of the things that I went out of your session and I switched the verbiage in my [00:16:00] program. So this is really big for me.

So yes, tell me what you use instead of you don't have to eat it.

Stephanie: Yeah. So I'm not a big fan of, you don't have to eat it. I'm not telling you as parents, you can never say that, but there's something I'd like to invite you to try saying instead to see how it works with your kiddo. So when you're having that moment with your kid and it is just like, everyone's feelings are super intense.

It's not going to happen. They don't want to eat it. And they're resisting strongly. Many parents have been trained to say you don't have to eat it. And instead, I'd like to encourage you to say it's okay to leave it. You don't have to eat it still has within it, in my opinion, it doesn't bring the spirit of curiosity and connection that we're looking for with language.

It shuts down the fact you don't have to eat it. Even if you say it in your gentlest tone, it still suggests or it may insinuate that the kid's not doing it quite right. You don't have to eat it. You [00:17:00] don't have to eat it. Even you don't have to eat it. You can hear there's just a little bit of potential for shame in there.

Instead of, it's okay to leave it, it's always okay to leave it. Right, Ellyn Satter, you just described. The child is deciding if they're going to eat this or not, it's okay to leave it. That is conveying a sense of okayness and okayness is what we want our kids to feel as eaters today and through their entire lifetime as best as we can help foster it.

Brittyn: Totally. I feel a drastic change in just the mealtime environment whenever I would use that. I mean, I have a 14 month old, right? So he's not, you know, telling me all of his feelings and all the things, but I still practice it and say it's okay to leave it. In fact, we're actually going through a huge picky eating phase right now.

We love fruits, love yogurt, and the rest of the food is just not doing it for him right now. So we're walking through some steps on that but I still practice this language, even [00:18:00] though he doesn't completely get it right now. But I think it's a really great way to set the tone for mealtime. And I believe even just my tone of voice saying that, he can feel the difference.

But, I do, kind of on that note, I do want to talk about, I mean, we're talking about mealtime language and oftentimes, You know, that is verbal speech. Now, a lot of children on the spectrum are not speaking, and so I wanted to know your insight on how we can tailor this for kids who are non speaking.

Stephanie: Super important question, Brittyn, and I love it. I think it's critically important in terms of helping kids on the spectrum. And it also connects to what you just said about having a kid that's 14 months old or young, not going to say, you know, when you say, tell me about the broccoli for you, they're not going to offer you that answer in words, right?

There is a really important two things I would highlight for our listeners for whom this is their experience or caregivers. Instead of using the "tell me about" [00:19:00] question, remember how I started today by saying the two open ended questions I encourage caregivers to use are what do you notice and tell me about.

In this instance, if your child is nonverbal, take away the tell me about and just ask what do you notice. Now, I know that probably sounds odd. You're like, well, they can't answer me. That's okay. It's not about them answering you in words. What do you notice about that? I keep picking on broccoli.

What do you notice about broccoli is still a valuable question, even if your child is not able to respond using words. And here's why. What are you noticing about broccoli or what do you notice about broccoli is helping them be inside their own experience. That's where the magic happens with eating. And secondly, if you're in this situation, the really important thing you can follow it up with is what I call a for me statement.

So what are you noticing about, what do you notice about broccoli? And then just pause for a second and then offer. [00:20:00] For me, it's really... fill in the blank with an adjective. Yes. So here's why we're doing that. We're practicing showing the process of going inward. Let's do it, one second, you and me.

Give me a food you ate today.

Brittyn: Mmm. What did I eat today? English muffin.

Stephanie: Okay, so what do you notice, what did you notice about that English muffin? And don't answer me. And I'm imagining I'm eating an English muffin. I would say, for me, it's really crunchy and buttery. And we don't have to have any words back.

I love that you asked me this question because we're not looking for our kids to give us like a big repository of their feelings. We're teaching them how to turn inward and feel what's happening in their body as they eat. Wow. So, we don't need, we don't need an answer. It doesn't matter if there's no answer coming back.

We're still getting the job done and creating a relationship with food by helping you tune into that lived sense. I love it. I [00:21:00] love it. So for kids that aren't able to articulate verbally, it's simply one open ended question. What do you notice? And if you feel like it, adding a, for me, for me, and then be honest, you don't have to memorize that.

Just what is it like for you? What is it like? Oh, this all the way, by the way, also, you don't have to be eating it. Like if you have a kid who's kind of, eating a narrow range of foods and let's say they won't, they don't want apples. They don't like apples. What do you notice?

What are apples like for you? For me, they're kind of shiny and red. I would just use something that comes in through my eyes then if a kid's not going to eat it.

Brittyn: They're not eating it. Yes. And one thing that stuck out to me that you said, I'm just like repeating your whole thing, but you were saying, do this with their preferred foods as well. Don't just do it with the foods they don't like. Let's talk about it with the foods they love and identify more about those foods as well.

Stephanie: Let's say your kid loves popcorn or chips. What do you love about chips? What do you notice about chips? Yes, because we're, we're not, this is really important.

This is a [00:22:00] one very key thing. This is not about good and bad food because when you change your language around food, you have a consistent way of speaking about food, no matter what is being eaten. And that's really helpful for a kid who might be feeling like they're not doing a good enough job as an eater.

Brittyn: Definitely. I love that. Well, I feel like we could talk about this forever. So many questions that I could keep asking, but, I kind of want to wrap us up by saying if you had to give three tips for listeners right now to increase their odds of a successful mealtime, what would you say?

Stephanie: First one, I love this question.

Talk less. Listen more. Talk less. Listen more. So we do a lot of talking about food with kids. The value of changing how you talk about food is that you're going to use fewer words. The second thing is to remember that I kind of mentioned this earlier, kids have big feelings about food, and that what they're eating today is not a permanent, [00:23:00] the biggest predictor of what a kid eats in their adulthood is actually what they see being eaten in the home, not what they are actually eating.

So you can kind of take a exhale on that one, right? And the most, I think the most important thing I should have started with this one is that whatever is happening in your home with your kid around food and eating, you are not doing it all wrong. It is so important. There's no such thing as perfect language.

There's no such thing as a perfect meal. It's moment to moment. This is a, this is all evolving and changing and you're not doing it all wrong. It's that's, that's my biggest thing theme, I think.

Brittyn: Yes. I completely agree. I was on the phone with my best friend Claire right before this and her son, we've talked a lot because her son likes a limited number of foods and she was like, if I could go back and do it again, I would do this.

I would do this. And I'm like, you know what, we're not going to let ourselves put that kind of shame. She's like, I should have done it better. [00:24:00] I'm like, we're not going to let ourselves do that. We were doing the best we can. You did the best you can in the moment and you did an amazing job, you know?

So it's so easy to go back and look at our past self and be like, Oh, what I know now, but we don't let our friends do that. We don't let ourselves do that.

Stephanie: I mean, what you're talking about is the definition of self-compassion, right? You were able to tell Claire so easily, you're doing the best you can, and then, and it's so hard to say those words to ourselves.

Instead, we're like, oh my gosh, I'm totally a failure. If only I, you know, I love how you just use the example of how you talk to Claire about it and would love to invite your listeners, imagine you're talking to your best friend about the problem you're having. Can you use some of the language that you would use with your best friend toward yourself?

Brittyn: Totally. Yeah. I told her I was going to send her this podcast episode because she goes, Brit, please don't judge me. But I took some cucumbers out of the fridge and as soon as I had them, my son goes, yuck, I hate cucumbers. And she's like, you never tried them. And then she was like, I [00:25:00] paused in that moment and I just said, okay, whatever.

And she was like, I think I could have probably responded a lot better than what I did.

Stephanie: I hate cucumbers. Imagine, right? Like, what do you notice about cucumbers? Or how are cucumbers for you?

Brittyn: Exactly. And I was like, I have the recording for you. I was like, I'm going to get off this call. I'm going to send it to you pre edits.

You're going to love it.

Stephanie: Well, guess what else? I'm going to just tell you this. This is not meant to be a self promotion situation, but, when I wrote my book, I created free tools that people can download. So those are something that if people are interested in getting the chart, there's a pretty fun chart that's called say this, not that.

And I mean it lovingly, but it's just a way to if you know that you want to just try to hit the ground running with a few new phrases, you can download the free charts and tools it's actually on my publisher's website, not on my website.

Brittyn: I can link it if you want to send me the link. Yeah. And on that topic though, where can people find you and find your book?

Stephanie: Yes. So, I'm on Instagram @ tabletalkcoach, although admittedly less on social media than I used to be sort of taking a chill from that. But like I mentioned the downloadable tools and there's an eating meditation that's 2 minutes long that you can do with your child.

That's also on the website where my book was published. New Harbinger is my publisher. So if you go to new harbinger. com and type in End the Mealtime Meltdown. You can scroll down and click the download free tools. I don't know. I'm a big proponent of try it out. Like I said before, you know, when we started today, try it out before you buy something.

So go get the downloadable tools and see if they're working for you.

Brittyn: I'll link all of them. It sounds like you have some amazing resources. I'm even gonna utilize a lot of those. So everything will be in the show notes for people who are listening today, where they can just go in and click and find your free resources and I'll link your book as well and social media and everything.

But thank you so much for taking the time. I'll have to have you on again because there's just so much that we can talk about and I'm just so glad you took the time today and I'm glad you presented at FNCE.

Stephanie: Yeah, [00:27:00] I know. Me too. Me too. Keep up the great work. It was such a pleasure talking with you.

Brittyn: Thank you much.

Transcribed by Descript

About Brittyn Coleman, MS, RDN/LD

Brittyn Coleman, MS, RDN/LD, is a distinguished Registered Dietitian and Autism Nutrition Expert, known for her innovative, sensory-friendly feeding approach to nutrition for children on the autism spectrum. As the founder of the Nourishing Autism Collective, and as an autism sibling herself, Brittyn brings both professional expertise and personal understanding to her work. She empowers families with her expert guidance, helping children receive essential nutrients for optimal health and development. Her strategies are tailored to the unique dietary needs and sensory preferences of each child.

Brittyn's influence extends beyond her membership site through her active social media presence and her popular podcast, 'Nourishing Autism'. Her educational content on Instagram, YouTube, and other platforms has established her as a leading voice in autism nutrition, providing valuable resources, practical advice, and a supportive community for parents and professionals. 

Brittyn Coleman, MS, RDN/LD https://www.autismdietitian.com
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